Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26, 2010
Contents
1. story Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka So if build a really cool app and inside Magenic we ve talked about this too we could have some really nice apps even for our own consumption managing consulting schedules and workloads and a variety of stuff Richard Campbell Sure Carl Franklin Yeah Workflow especially having to get okays and approvals can imagine being really really cool in the phone Rocky Lhotka Absolutely Carl Franklin You know you re in a meeting the little thing pops up click yes or no okay Rocky Lhotka Well and a lot of us has of course done through Outlook now but it could be automated in some really interesting ways thats predicated on being able to do some sort of enterprise deployment so only Magenic people gets this thing Richard Campbell Yeah got to hope that Microsoft is not going to do what Apple did and leave them in a lurch for years Rocky Lhotka Uh hmm Richard Campbell Its also not their way mean they re generally pretty good to the enterprise and this is not a hard problem This is just not a hard problem An implementation of ClickOnce that runs on the phone so that can deploy ClickOnce server with an app on it would be all need Rocky Lhotka Yeah But don thonestly expect to see it in the first release either really suspect that it will Whatever kind of answer comes from this problem will probably be on in the next year or something Richard2. the internet or seen on the phone an app that really blew your mind recently Rocky Lhotka Well probably two things that I ve looked at recently One is and this has been around for awhile but was recently updated it s called SmallBASIC Carl Franklin Oh yeah Richard Campbell Oh yeah We did a show on SmallBASIC Carl Franklin We did a show on it yeah Rocky Lhotka And they just did an update and my younger son is using it to learn how to program Richard Campbell Awesome Carl Franklin Very cool Rocky Lhotka Not as fast as he would like Richard Campbell And are you working through their study plans as well Rocky Lhotka haven t really got to that just got it and installed it on this machine and we re plinking around with it You know in small ways Carl Franklin And how old is your son Rocky Lhotka Thirteen Carl Franklin Yeah that s great Richard Campbell That s great Rocky Lhotka But he should be able to hopefully with just a little support to start that s more Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 or less the age where think a lot of us probably started Richard Campbell Yeah absolutely And so he s doing the Turtle thing He s drawing on the screen all that good stuff Rocky Lhotka Uh hmm Richard Campbell Or is he getting crazier than that Rocky Lhotka Yup Richard Campbell Have you se
3. Campbell Yeah know they have been totally consumer centric up until now but the enterprise story is pretty darn compelling so just hope they don t ignore us for very long Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Carl Franklin This portion of NET Rocks is brought to you by our good friends at Telerik We ve been blown away by the uptake in the quick adaption of Silverlight It s no secret though that the platform didn t provide for consistent integration with the Web Analytics Services Well not anymore As you might have already heard Microsoft announced the Silverlight Analytics Framework which solves the abovementioned problem But what s also interesting is that Telerik already provides support for the framework Telerik is the first UI components vendor to offer handlers for the Silverlight Analytics Framework Using RadControls for Silverlight you can immediately benefit from the advantages of the platform and start tracking the statistics of your applications You can read details and download the handlers at telerik com silverlight And hey don t forget to thank Telerik for supporting NET Rocks on their Facebook fan page facebook com telerik What would be really cool is if can see deployment being pushed all the way to the phone from a server where the apps just install themselves in your enterprise Rocky Lhotka Yes Carl Franklin mean if yo
4. Richard Campbell think might have found it InfoQ Raven a document database for NET a schema less LINQ enabled document data store for NET Rocky Lhotka Yup Carl Franklin Wow Richard Campbell There you go This is cool Carl Franklin That s cool Rocky Lhotka That s what thought and just dug into it just briefly because you can run it as a server Apparently you can run it in processor as well which haven t tried Richard Campbell Wow Rocky Lhotka And so if you re just trying to basically store types it basically allows you to easily define some sort of a shape entity and just stuff it in there and get it back later Richard Campbell Right It s just JSON Rocky Lhotka And it s neat Yeah and it s in the client library so you don t even have to mess up the JSON if you don t want to Carl Franklin show We should get them on the Richard Campbell Oh no Carl Franklin What Richard Campbell Oh no Carl Franklin What Richard Campbell Raven was released with three licensing options the Raven DB Community Raven DB Commercial Raven DB Enterprise Both commercials they have a monthly subscription or perpetual license Raven was created by Hibernating Rhinos a consultancy founded by Ayende Rahien Carl Franklin Ayende Rahien Richard Campbell Ayende Ayende Carl Franklin Roar Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2
5. Rocky Lhotka That s true Carl Franklin Whenever you want it really but really love the idea of being live and having people listening and partaking and sharing in that experience There s a special community that can happen and video doesn t do it Rocky Lhotka It s not the same Carl Franklin It s not the same Rocky Lhotka This weekend in fact think in three days here in Minneapolis theres a science fiction convention called Convergence Richard Campbell Oh yeah Rocky Lhotka Andit opens with the Mark Time Radio Awards and a live hour long radio drama that s performed literally performed on stage in front of the audience Carl Franklin Cool Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Rocky Lhotka And you know they do the foley they do the voices everything is done completely live and broadcast over actual airways Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Far out Rocky Lhotka amazing and fun Right as it goes which is really Carl Franklin Garrison Keillor from St Paul too that s not too far from you I m sure Rocky Lhotka or do a show Right yup I ve seen him speak Carl Franklin Yeah You ve been out to see it Rocky Lhotka Yeah That s a blast Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka I s fun in person or more than what it sounds like on the radio Carl Franklin Yeah I ve seen it a couple of times It really is fu
6. and who knows maybe little Campbell Franklin Miller will decide to make his appearance because so far he s just been hanging out Carl Franklin swear to God thought he s going to be born during the Live Weekend Richard Campbell Yeah No it looks pretty close there The only think could think of is that he has finally discovered the graffiti left behind by the previous child and so he s busy reading and thats why he hasn t bother to come out He s five days late Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Yeah he s That s what he s doing reading the Carl Franklin being with us Rocky thanks so much for Rocky Lhotka been a pleasure Oh thank you guys This has Carl Franklin It certainly has been a pleasure for us And thanks everybody who s listening in Make sure you stick around for that music Richard Campbell All right Carl Franklin don t know after this We ll see you in about oh Music NET Rocks is recorded and PWOP Productions providing Carl Franklin produced by Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 professional audio audio mastering video post production and podcasting services online at www pwop com NET Rocks is a production of Franklins NET training developers to work smarter and offering custom onsite classes in Microsoft development technology with expert developers online at www franklins n
7. exactly It s not exactly internet friendly Richard Campbell It s not exactly hard drive friendly Carl Franklin Yeah exactly Yeah mean essentially if you ve got one of these smaller SSD hard drives now you ll fill that up very quick Richard Campbell Yeah in no time at all Page 4 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Rocky Lhotka But wonder if this isn t just a temporary issue because you already were seeing 3 D gaming engines and other interesting Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka There are pretty intensive thing that are getting ported or written in Silverlight Richard Campbell Uh hmm Rocky Lhotka I ve got to believe at least for your barring licensing issues that it s just a matter of time before we start to see a lot of other things like Codecs coming in Carl Franklin think you re right and I m actually pretty sure base on some you know when you have conversations with people from Microsoft and the say Now I m not saying anything but Microsoft it would be probably a pretty good idea for them to do that Don t you think So l m pretty confident that that s coming can t think of a good reason why they wouldn t give you access to that Richard Campbell Sure Carl Franklin Especially if they ve got web cam support and all you can do is show it So can t see myself Why not install a mirror Richard Campbell You could do that Silverlight d
8. probably up to Richard Campbell Wow Rocky Lhotka my favorites And Ruby 1 0 1 0 and 3 0 are Carl Franklin So would you rather listen to radio drama than read a book Rocky Lhotka that s a tough one Oh love to read though So Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka No think prefer reading but a well done radio drama is really hard to turn down Richard Campbell Yeah Page 9 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Rocky Lhotka I ve got almost think maybe all The Shadows are close I ve got all the Dragnets all the Ruby s Richard Campbell The classics Rocky Lhotka We ve got quite a collection on The Shadow Is that how you say that Richard Campbell Uh hmm Carl Franklin Yeah yeah Rocky Lhotka So a lot of we ve got quite a collection of radio plays around our house Richard Campbell Who knows what lurks in Rocky Lhotka My youngest son is a fanatic He listens to them almost constantly Carl Franklin Theater of the Mind Richard Campbell Yeah yeah Its very interesting Carl Franklin That s good stuff So the reason asked this is because this whole weekend was an experiment really in radio and we ve never done the whole live thing as much as people think we do When somebody tells me What do you do and I say Internet radio Oh When is your show on Well it s always on Richard Campbell Yeah Whenever you want it
9. s one of the questions we have floating around which don t believe we ve actually had answered it s whether or not the mobile team is just going to make Silverlight a standard development tool for all of the embedded stuff so that everybody you know it doesn t matter whether you re building a barcode scanneror an RFID reader or anything It should be able to work in Silverlight Rocky Lhotka Yeah And think for all that arguably there s not you know Microsoft has never been great at the cross platform story Richard Campbell Right Page 2 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Rocky Lhotka But Silverlight by far is the mostcross platform that we ve seen other than maybe some old C compilers from the 90s or something Richard Campbell Yeah Tim here was talking about the fact that Microsoft is committed to putting Silverlight on a set top box for Motorola which is best pretty cool Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell We re starting to see this showing up in more places Rocky Lhotka Yeah think and that s where really like you said the three screens If we get PCs Macs your average browser based and PC based world and then you get phones and then you get smaller dedicated devices like settop boxes hopefully either Microsoft or hardware vendors come up with a nice compelling tablet story around Windows but really would hope that any story there would be cente
10. through directory loading all the types and looking for the attributes So I m not sure if it s an efficiency thing as much as they save me writing half a page of code that maybe not everybody just knows how to write off the top of their head Richard Campbell Right Carl Franklin How about Wiff Rocky Lhotka That one haven t looked at yet think it s an interesting problem space Carl Franklin Yes itis Rocky Lhotka And one that needs addressing but really haven t put a lot of energy into it do think that the other model that s built into NET for users and roles and all that stuff really falls out of Windows and then falls all the way back probably 20 Page 13 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks years and doesn t mirror what people do So the idea of having some sort of a more powerful identity model seems like a good thing to me Richard Campbell Cool Rocky Lhotka But think the real trick is that NET is largely based on this identity Principle and identity comes up which has roles baked in and until the framework itself adopt some other constructs it s going to be somewhat challenging for people to just switch Carl Franklin Rocky I m going to ask you at the end of this show here well we re getting close to the end and this is a good time to ask and this is a question used to ask a lot of my previous guests What have you downloaded or bought or seen on
11. understand how or where Carl Franklin Oh yeah Rocky Lhotka And so now how do maintain this thing Unless they understand what you did becauseit s probably elsewhere maybe in your Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 startup code where you create your catalogs and that might be the thing that triggers population of numerous fields across your app Carl Franklin Right Rocky Lhotka So in fact in one demo had written use MEF because it made my life easier and was asked to remove it because it was deemed that the code was too nobody could follow the code Richard Campbell Ah right Too obscuring Rocky Lhotka It was less of obscuring to write the reflection code myself Richard Campbell Interesting and that makes sense to me because MEF code is very abstract but it is an interesting problem in the sense that you re also offering reference code and your project as a whole is stuff that people need to adopt They need to be able to read it Rocky Lhotka Yes Richard Campbell Even though a Reflection is theoretically less efficient at this Rocky Lhotka Right Richard Campbell That is interesting Rocky Lhotka don t know if it s less efficient MEF uses the same code wrote more or less behind the scenes Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka mean they did some clever caching l m sure but ultimately they re scanning
12. yeah it s elevated trust It s not full There s no way there s P Invoke in this Carl Franklin Yeah It didn t fix Richard Campbell don t see that mean just look at the description here Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Carl Franklin P Invoke is essentially full trust Richard Campbell Yeah That s what think P Invoke is full trust Carl Franklin And so is COM access for that matter Richard Campbell Well you know like the way that Rocky described it Rocky Lhotka Oh it s a clear gateway though Right Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka If you want to create a COM component that wraps your MP3 encoder Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka You should be able to do that Richard Campbell You should be able to invoke it You just got to get that COM component on to the destination machine Carl Franklin Right Richard Campbell And that would be the tricky bit Carl Franklin Well you know a ClickOnce app would do that pretty easily Richard Campbell Yup Carl Franklin Click here and then it s done You know a pretty easy installation but Richard Campbell Well it s all Carl Franklin But yeah so with the web cam support in Silverlight 4 0 you do have access to the raw data like you can get the raw audio data and you can get the raw video data Have you ever seen an uncompress AVI file Yeah
13. 010 Richard Campbell Roar Well guess I m going to have to call up Ayende and get another show with him Carl Franklin Yeah Oh it s a shame Richard Campbell Dang it Rocky Lhotka Bomb array Richard Campbell That dude has got to stop making such cool stuff What is wrong with him Carl Franklin know That s very cool Richard Campbell You stop that Oren Stop it right now Oh my goodness This is so cool Rocky Lhotka It really is just walk through the first like two or three demos in their little locked through script and was just totally impressed Richard Campbell That is awesome Yeah that s a whole other topic l m glad you re excited but now I m excited about it too Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Hey we have a question from guess you d call this a question This isn t really a question Aaron Erickson in the IRC channel says Wanted CSLA implementation written in IronRuby You ve got nothing better to do do you Rocky You can learn Ruby Rocky Lhotka I think I ll enlist Aaron s help Richard Campbell There you go Rocky Lhotka He spends a lot of time on airplanes so he ought to be able to put that together Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell I m sure he will figure that out in a couple of good trips to Europe think Rocky Lhotka That s exactly right Richard Campbell What And then on the Twitter he s talking about making a Spanish omelet shuffles
14. NE T Rocks The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers With Carl Franklin pinsdin and Richard Campbell a RQ own OE ocs orn HTTP www dotnetrocks com Carl Franklin and Richard Campbell interview experts to bring you insights into NET technology and the state of software development More than just a dry interview show we have fun Original Music Prizes Check out what you ve been missing t j Carl Franklin Richard Campbell Text Transcript of Show 605 Transcription services provided by PWOP Productions Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Our Sponsor telerik HTTP www telerik com The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Lawrence Ryan NET Rocks episode 605 with guest Rocky Lhotka recorded live Monday June 28 2010 Music Lawrence Ryan This episode is brought to you by Telerik by Haystack and by Franklins NET Training Developers to Work Smarter and now offering video training on Silverlight 4 0 with Billy Hollis and SharePoint 2010 with Sahil Malik order online now at franklins net And now here s Carl and Richard Carl Franklin Hey this is Carl Franklin and Richard Campbell We re here doing the last show of the NET Rocks Live Weekend and we re talking with Mr Rocky Lhotka Hey Rocky Rocky Lhotka Hey how is it going Carl Franklin It s going well How are you Rocky Lhotka I m doing grea
15. NET or whatever and then where you have these islands of functional ness you want to Richard Campbell Let s call it islands of funk shui Carl Franklin Funk shui like that Or funky islands Yeah you build Richard Campbell Give us the funk Carl Franklin Right You build your routines in F compile them into a separate assembly and then call them Richard Campbell And that s where think it would be potentially interesting As you start thinking about this you know the hierarch of objects that CSLA gets into when you start doing complex validation and rules around taxation and stuff mean that s all pretty cool stuff and I m wondering if it would be better served functionally Rocky Lhotka Well and it s possible and that s Carl Franklin Something to think about Rocky Lhotka Well and it s possible too that you can just do it today because of the way that rewrote the business rules engine in CSLA 4 0 Page 12 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka Rules that are now types whereas before they weren t It s using delegates to static methods as a memory optimization which was think really not a bad idea but it precluded the use of external types inherit and all sorts of good object oriented construct But suspect well one of the reasons that made the change did was because want to be able to invoke external r
16. and listening to the show What s up with that Obviously we haven t got his undivided attention Rocky Lhotka He s a multitasker Richard Campbell Apparently Oh man All right that was unexpectedly cool Page 15 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Carl Franklin Steve Evans says we should do this again next weekend What do you think Richard Campbell Ah no Carl Franklin I m thinking no Richard Campbell Yeah yeah No no don t think so Carl Franklin We had a great time though Richard Campbell We sure had Carl Franklin Really did Richard Campbell Rocky what s next for you Were you at the you were at TechEd weren t you Rocky Lhotka was Richard Campbell Yeah saw you there briefly Rocky Lhotka Yeah TechEd was fun A lot of people a lot of energy Itwas one of the best TechEd in the past couple of three years would say Richard Campbell Yeah Yeah yeah It was nice to be in New Orleans Boy it was hot Rocky Lhotka It was but it was really nice to be there and the food is so amazingly good Richard Campbell Oh yeah Every night on Bourbon Street right Rocky Lhotka On or near it Carl Franklin love that town Rocky Lhotka I can t claim that made it to Bourbon Street every night I m not that young anymore Richard Campbell Yeah don t know that would admit if had Carl Franklin Bourbon Street is not even th
17. ant way to just simply include COM objects with your Silverlight application and make it work Rocky Lhotka No don t think so think you ve got to have some installer one way or another to get them out there and don t know that ClickOnce is a great answer because of the COM registration requirements Carl Franklin Oh remember what it was now It was a library that did on the fly MP3 encoding because you don t get access to the Codecs in Silverlight Rocky Lhotka So that s interesting because a few months ago did an informal poll inside of Page 3 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Magenic as to how many people do basically how many people step outside of NET Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka That have to do P Invokes or COM interaction and it was a pretty small percentage of our overall consulting base and the reasons primarily or the single biggest reason was Office The second biggest reason and that was a very close second was to deal with legacy DLL s that have existed Some client has had a DLL for the last 20 years and they re not going to update it because they never have but yet they still need it So then you ve got a P Invoke scenario Carl Franklin And that s exactly my scenario There aren t really any there is no managed code MP3 encoder on the internet as far as can tell and spent hours and hours and hours looking for one But there are things t
18. arl Franklin Oh you would love this So it started at a place called the Maff think and that s why they call it the MAFF Radio Hour but the whole idea is that people who aren t professional storytellers but who can tell stories kind of like Mr Campbell he s got a great voice and he d tell you a story he could be talking about anything and youd be enamored and they get up in front of an audience and they tell a true story It has to be a true story and you get people you get cops There was a cop on the other night talking about how he chase down or he got a what was it He had a police description like a sketch a police sketch of a criminal who robbed the bank and driving by some place they saw this guy who was the guy they saw this guy and they chase him and they cornered him and the guy started he like fell down into a ball and start crying He thought that you see he was dating some girl who was married to some mobster and he thought that these guys these cops who were coming to get him were like the gumbas that the husband sent to rob him out Richard Campbell Wow Carl Franklin So it s an interesting story because they thought he was a bank robber It turns Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 out he wasn t and he thought these guys who looked like they could have been mobsters Richard Campbell Right Carl Franklin Andit s told by a co
19. d Campbell Yeah And it sounds like this is one of those times just a new configuration format redesign to it it works Rocky Lhotka Yeah yeah But it is kind of you know overall it s a nice story because CSLA has Page 8 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks a pretty big code base and of course it scomplex because it goes very deep in its use of reflection dynamic types a whole bunch of things So the fact that it upgraded it s moving as it did is pretty nice Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka At first was doing the upgrades back before NET 4 0 and Visual Studio were released Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka That didn t help either Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Playing with beta bits Rocky Lhotka To be fair to Microsoft yeah if I m running into snafus because l m using beta bits that s not really their problem Richard Campbell No it s not their fault Well it only makes sense Any other hints or tricks things you run into Of course you had me thinking if you have trouble going through Silverlight 3 0 to Silverlight 4 0 you can go compare that to going from really Studio 9 0 to Studio 10 they re much more mature products Rocky Lhotka Yeah Richard Campbell This is actually the sixth or seventh version of NET Rocky Lhotka Well yeah if you count all of the point releases which think you should Richard Campbell Yeah think yo
20. dly the VB version of CSLA went away a couple of years ago Richard Campbell Yes Carl Franklin What do you mean by that thought you were offering compiled dll s here Rocky Lhotka Well that s true I m not saying that it doesn t work with VB applications Carl Franklin Why wouldn t it Rocky Lhotka I m saying that no longer maintain the source code twice Carl Franklin Oh oh okay Yeah don t think that s a deal breaker for anybody really Richard Campbell No Rocky Lhotka No If that s a deal breaker then they have give up NET because most of it is written in C too Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka know its frustrating for people that use the CSLA source code base as a learning tool Richard Campbell Yup Rocky Lhotka fully appreciate the loss there but at the same time it s a lot of work to maintain everything twice Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka And then when Silverlight came along with all of its async behaviors the language feature called multi Lambdas that was in C and not in VB that was a deal breaker Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Richard Campbell For you Rocky Lhotka For me Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka The amount of code to write something in C is easy and the amount of code to do the same thing in VB was several times more lines of code Richard Campbell Wow Roc
21. e best place mean the place the main hub of Bourbon Street where all craziness goes on that s all really really commercial Richard Campbell Yes Carl Franklin You ve got to go down to Lafitte s Blacksmith Shop on Bourbon if you really want to experience New Orleans Its an old blacksmith shop that s been converted into a bar and it s open to the street and all they have is candlelight Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Rocky Lhotka I ve been there not this time but I ve been there in the past Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka And then Jackson Square Carl Franklin Yeah Jackson Square is wonderful Rocky Lhotka That park is a great place Carl Franklin sat and played guitar in Jackson Square one afternoon Did you get a Muffelatta while you were there Rocky Lhotka Oh yeah Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka Peacefully Carl Franklin Did you have one bob Richard Campbell Always Carl Franklin A Muffelatta Richard Campbell Yeah absolutely Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka I m trying to recall there s a local that sent us down to a place a burger bar that you go to the very end of Bourbon you go a block and a half Carl Franklin Yo Mama s Rocky Lhotka I s like the Port of Call or something Carl Franklin Oh it wasn t Yo Mama s Rocky Lhotka No no It sounds like the Port of Call and oh it wa
22. en the Asteroids game that has been written in SmallBASIC Rocky Lhotka No Richard Campbell Its unbelievable So the guy who created SmallBASIC he works for Microsoft works on the Studio team this is really his side project he s got a blog and could probably find the blog post where he use SmallBASIC to implement classic activation Asteroids and it is stunning It s really gorgeous Carl Franklin It s very cool and you could play it online too and doesn t it use Silverlight to Richard Campbell Yeah Well it compiles on Silverlight Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka The other thing that I ve been wouldn t say dabbling with downloaded looked at and thought wow how am to do this To dig deeper is the Raven database Richard Campbell have not looked at this What is Raven database Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka Raven is a I m trying to find their actual descriptions like a document based database but it s a INET managed code engine and it s not relational It s RESTful guess is the way to put it Richard Campbell Really Rocky Lhotka In fact in the samples I ve gone through you talk to the database server using a RESTful protocol Carl Franklin kidding So it s a file system was just Page 14 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Rocky Lhotka Yeah kind of but you can define and store complex structures Carl Franklin Okay
23. ertainly the topics you just listed are key things that I m giving a lot of thought to As you ve mentioned I m a big fan of Silverlight and I ve put a lot of time and energy in the Silverlight and think it s very exciting and very cool At the same think that Microsoft is smart in hedging their bets by supporting HTML 5 0 That s actually how view it I m sure it s not politically correct Carl Franklin what I m feeling too Yeah No that s pretty close to Rocky Lhotka But it seems to me like Well you can t go wrong because there s always going to be some set of web developments where Silverlight isn t appropriate for some reason or another things like needing to run on the iPod or other close environments like that and so then HTML becomes a big deal but even then HTML 5 0 seems a little dicey and that is it won t be a common denominator for years just based on the way that HTML has evolved over the years So I m still really hopeful that Silverlight catches on it and people get excited about Silverlight the way am Richard Campbell And it does seem like it is catching on We ve seen more apps built that way and you can t argue with Silverlight 4 0 s ability to go in and out of the browser and now on Win Phone 7 0 That s finally three screens Carl Franklin Certainly a Rocky Lhotka Not just Windows Phone but also the Windows embedded platforms Right Richard Campbell Right of course Well and think it
24. et For more NET Rocks episodes and to subscribe to the podcast feeds go to our website at www dotnetrocks com Page 18 of 18
25. fice friendly VB style COM that you can use but that s most of it Carl Franklin That s most of it mean the fact is that if I ve got something that Silverlight doesn t support can maybe wrap it up in a COM object Now the things I ve done a little research on this they also say they throw around the word P Invoke too and looked everywhere Rocky couldn t find one single example of calling the Windows API from Silverlight Rocky Lhotka Yeah I ve not seen any Carl Franklin P Invoke But I ve seen that term Rocky Lhotka But you know at least from my part can t remember the last time did a P Invoke in NET Carl Franklin Well actually have something that want to do that can only do with a COM object and only do with a Win API call Could remember what it is for the life of me now after talking for 94 hours straight or however many hours 72 hours No But do remember going and looking for any kind of demo or any kind of thing that definitely said it was possible and could not find anything Then the other thing that remember seeing was well the COM object has to exist already on the system but why couldn t write some sort of ClickOnce installer for the COM object and then you know Again if I m using a COM object I m locking myself down the Windows understand that but could make some sort of call out to register the COM object I m just wondering if there s a really graceful eleg
26. hat have been converted and ported and are available as COM objects so you would have to first run some sort of ClickOnce application to install the COM object and then you could run the Silverlight thing and the reason was thinking of that was to be able to wouldn t it be great to just be able to have a Silverlight application come up when you want to send a message to somebody and just push the talk push the button to talk or maybe even record your web cam or whatever and just fire that all off to somebody capture it and fire it off Richard Campbell Guys remember Brian Noyce telling us that Silverlight 4 0 doesn t have full trust It has elevated trust Carl Franklin Yeah it is elevated trust Richard Campbell So I ve gone to the docs now off the Silverlight NET site and this is what it says In trust mode in the elevated trust mode you can read and write to a user s My Documents My Music My Pictures and My Video s folder and you can run desktop programs including Office For example you re requesting Outlook to send an email or send a reportto Word or data to Excel you could do COM automation to enable access to devices and other system capabilities by calling into application components for instance accessing a USB security card reader Some group policies can be configured to support with elevated trust better keyboard support enhancements in networking you so don t need policy files and some custom chroming So
27. hat way Richard Campbell Yeah Did you submit for TechEd Europe Rocky Lhotka did not Richard Campbell Oh why not Rocky Lhotka Well because Connections is in the first week of November and VSLive is in Orlando third week Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Richard Campbell And Berlin is in the second you can never Rocky Lhotka We re into the second so being gone three weeks in a row probably wouldn t go very well Richard Campbell With she who must be obeyed Rocky Lhotka don t know how to put that Richard Campbell Yeah There are issues Carl Franklin Well before we wrap up a couple of housekeeping notes would like to thank Lawrence Ryan and Brandon Wenn our engineers for doing a great job of manning Richard Campbell Slugging it out with us Carl Franklin Producing the show and editing those shows That did get edited Thank you guys you re awesome You could say thanks It s okay All right they re not talking Richard Campbell They re so tired and they re dragging Carl Franklin They re tired yup Richard Campbell Yeah they re dragging Carl Franklin It s quite all right and also we had a machine blow up that seriously hampered our ability to speak apparently severely hampered our ability to get the shows edited so that we could repeat them So we will not be repeating them tonight Sorry abo
28. ky Lhotka Now VB 10 0 adds that feature Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka So technically could go back and do it Richard Campbell Oh boy You could catch up You had nothing else to do Rocky Lhotka But like really want to You know two years worth of effort Carl Franklin I d rather you concentrate on features for the phone Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka Yeah Me too Richard Campbell Now the version number is actually in sync with the NET releases Is that how we end up in CSLA 4 0 Rocky Lhotka That s correct Richard Campbell How about that He is so organized Carl Franklin Everybody is all is 4 d out Richard Campbell They re all lined up on 4 0 Rocky Lhotka Yup Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell So is this really the build that s all about NET 4 0 and Studio 2010 Rocky Lhotka Yes Richard Campbell Brilliant So got to ask like big changes like what did you find in moving up to the new tools Page 7 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Rocky Lhotka Well believe it or not there are very few changes in CSLA that were forced to buy NET this time Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka NET 2 0 gave us generics and that was a huge change for CSLA Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka NET 3 0 gave us WPF and WCF and so that was a really big change mean deeper than you would at first think because the data bi
29. m download the user manual and watch the videos from more information on this great product They host a live webcast every two weeks You can sign up at pdsa com webcast and see how Haystack will shorten your development cycle Carl Franklin Well Richard were you thinking of any particular features of CSLA that would be better off functional Richard Campbell really wasn t You know and honestly it s selfish of me It comes back to the same old thing If Rocky finds a way to use F effectively as CSLA a a huge endorsement of F and b staggering sample Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Carl Franklin be a huge Yeah Well yeah mean that would Richard Campbell You know staggeringly good sample Carl Franklin Right Richard Campbell And that s again a completely selfish act on my part Carl Franklin Well because the thing we ve been talking with all these F people about is when is it appropriate to use this in the context of a regular business application Richard Campbell Yes Carl Franklin We ve had a few people come in and say or get on the show and say You can use it anywhere You can create a complete business app Most people are sort of dismissive of that notion now and pretty come to a conclusion that its the hybrid mode Richard Campbell Yeah Carl Franklin You build your business application in C VB
30. n because they re so dead pan when they do their thing especially the sound effects guys Rocky Lhotka And just last week got to go see a live recording of Wait Wait Don t Tell Me Richard Campbell Oh wow Carl Franklin No You went to one of those Rocky Lhotka Yeah They came to Minneapolis Richard Campbell Awesome Carl Franklin Oh wow Rocky Lhotka And talk about fun mean that really is more fun in person because they recorded over 90 minutes of content and then edit it back to fit it into their programs Richard Campbell Wow Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Which is a lot more Rocky Lhotka You get a lot more jokes anda lot of laughter than what you get on the radio Page 10 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks amp Richard Campbell saw Carl Franklin So they re not broadcasting live when they re doing their show on the radio then Rocky Lhotka No they re not They record the shows This was on a Thursday for the Saturday broadcast Carl Franklin Wow okay Richard Campbell Just like us Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka Yeah just like you except in front of a few hundred people Carl Franklin Right Richard Campbell Right Yeah Well it s like our live shows at the conferences Carl Franklin Right Richard Campbell They use a similar format Carl Franklin Have you ever heard the MAFF Radio Hour Rocky Lhotka No C
31. nding in XAML is different from Windows Forms Richard Campbell Uh hmm Rocky Lhotka You know 3 5 give us the Entity Framework and then somewhere in here we get ASP MVC but a lot of those changes already existed tosome degree Silverlight was a couple of years ago now All of these were things where Microsoft changed things that force me to do pretty radical stuff Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka This time around a lot of the bigger changes are driven based on CSLA users giving me feedback about what they wish that it would do Richard Campbell Oh see Rocky Lhotka And so there are some really substantial changes but they re like extending the or replacing the business rule engine Carl Franklin Oh Rocky Lhotka To be much much more powerful and simpler both The same with the authorization engine so it s possible to do a lot of things like shared tenant hosting that were pretty difficult if not impossible with 4 0 There are some nice new scenarios but again they have less to do with NET technology changes than they do with what people have been asking for Richard Campbell Should we actually moved to everything in CSLA up to the NET 4 0 Framework or are you using the side by side execution Rocky Lhotka Silverlight 4 0 No Everything is NET 4 0 or Richard Campbell Nice Rocky Lhotka Yup Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More Octobe
32. oes mirrors That s cool Carl Franklin Yeah wrote a mirror application Rocky Lhotka It was video distortion in fact Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell There you go Carl Franklin Let me run this app need a mirror can t find one Richard Campbell Rocky any playing around with the Windows Phone 7 0 emulator because know you don t have a phone Rocky Lhotka wish had a phone Richard Campbell Nobody has a phone Rocky Lhotka But nobody has a phone Richard Campbell Yeah Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Rocky Lhotka So I ve played around a little bit with the emulator and then I m just kind of biding my time I m working on getting CSLA 4 0 wrapped up Richard Campbell Nice Carl Franklin Very cool Rocky Lhotka And that would be within the next couple of three weeks and then the next high priority for me is actually to get a CSLA working on the phone Richard Campbell So actually getting the classes running on the phone Rocky Lhotka Absolutely Richard Campbell Wow Rocky Lhotka And it looks like it should work with relative you know there s a few Silverlight specific or desktop Silverlight specific especially UI widget things I ve got Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka They just don t translate but most of it is just going to work from what can see Richard Campbell This makes me ha
33. p with a New York accent and the guys never told the story in front of people on the stage in his life and he s talking and just great stuff like really really good stuff Yeah highly recommended The MAFF Radio Hour and I m sure you can find it If you just Google it you ll find the podcast Richard Campbell Mama s fear Carl Franklin Nothing like a good story though Richard Campbell Yup Got a guy who love a good story Should we talk a little tech Carl Franklin Yeah okay Richard Campbell Yeah I m sorry Carl Franklin I m just a little burned out Richard Campbell I m with you man It s the last show Stay with me man Carl Franklin All right I m with you Richard Campbell Eyes on the fries Rocky Lhotka Carl Franklin I m ready to jam Richard Campbell There you go You re ready to play think so Carl Franklin I m ready to play Richard Campbell Hey are you really taking a look at any of the new features in Studio 2010 in the context of CSLA The one that jumps out to me is F Carl Franklin Ooh Richard Campbell Like have you look at pieces of CSLA and said this could better be done functional Carl Franklin Ooh good question Rocky Lhotka have not Richard Campbell Well thanks very much for your answer Rocky Lhotka You re welcome Page 11 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Carl Franklin But it is a good question Rock
34. ppy It makes me happy when Rocky Lhotka takes on a technology It s like one of the best validations could hope for If Rocky likes it it must be good Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka I m excited think from a technology perspective it s just all happiness Richard Campbell Yeah it s pretty exciting Rocky Lhotka From a business perspective it s interesting because why do people create phone apps You know they create phone apps Most people anyway they have to reach a wide audience like the web Richard Campbell Yes Rocky Lhotka And so the Windows Phone is very compelling from my perspective as a developer But if I m a business person its going to be one player among many for some time to come Richard Campbell Yeah And like the idea of CSLA being added to that equation because now you can just extend that app onto the phone as well think that we ve been waiting for a really great smart phonesolution to make our enterprise apps just be Page 5 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks part of the equation Windows Mobile up to now has been way too hard and heaven forbid if you try and do it with an iPhone hear enterprise developers screaming from here There has not been a good solution and this is If it actually works the way it s supposed to it s a stunning solution Rocky Lhotka Yes think Microsoft needs to come up with a compelling enterprise deployment
35. r 26 2010 Richard Campbell And it just worked Rocky Lhotka The NET part almost just work Basically you can almost take 3 8 and compile it into 4 0 with minor tweaks Silverlight was a little bit harder because they change some of the ways that WCF read its configuration Richard Campbell Oh see Rocky Lhotka sense to me In ways that honestly makes no Carl Franklin Wow Rocky Lhotka cards you deal But you know you always like Richard Campbell Right It s not like we actually broke anything which is actually damaging It s just different and not necessarily better Rocky Lhotka Exactly Yeah my app doesn t run Now they want the Silverlight 4 0 don t know why Oh I ll tweak the my config file doesn t look like the new kind Carl Franklin Well yeah You know that s what so much of development is now So many times we don t know what the real problem is Richard Campbell Or why they change something Carl Franklin We don t care We just know that doing this gives us happy noises Richard Campbell Makes it work again Carl Franklin Hell if know That s right What did you do Rocky Lhotka So many of these people including me run on different kinds of deadlines Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka And when you do have time to research it sometimes it s fun to know but sometimes you just do whatever you have to do to make it work too Carl Franklin Yeah Richar
36. red on Silverlight 2 0 Carl Franklin Rocky what s the story with Silverlight 4 0 and COM interop Rocky Lhotka My understanding and having not spent the time to go try it my understanding is that if you re running out of browser and you check the full trust box that you can do COM interop Carl Franklin Now do COM interop that s quite a lot of exposure Does that mean any COM object that can be created on the machine Rocky Lhotka Well and thats where l m going to become somewhat skeptical Carl Franklin Yeah l m a bit skeptical myself because all you really need to do to have any kind of access to anything is write a NET object and wrap it in a COM Callable Wrapper Rocky Lhotka Well and that part suspect will work think that my understanding again is that Microsoft s primary target with that was Office Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka And if you think back into the murky days of COM or suppose some people would view them as the glittering golden days of COM Carl Franklin Well Don Box would anyway Rocky Lhotka But I ll stick with murky There were really two kinds of COM There was the VB kind that Office in VB had Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Carl Franklin Right Rocky Lhotka And then there is the rest of it that you could do all sorts of really interesting weird stuff with C My guess is that it s only the Of
37. s good It was a dive like any good burger place would be right Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka But yeah very good food Richard Campbell Yeah and some of the best collections of Bourbon I ve ever seen anywhere outside of Tennessee Carl Franklin Yo Mama s has a think it s a five pound burger Page 16 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks amp Rocky Lhotka Oh jeez Carl Franklin It s just ridiculous Richard Campbell That s not good Carl Franklin Yeah it s as big as a cake and you basically share it with a bunch of people Rocky Lhotka heart in one meal Yeah Either that or stop your Carl Franklin Yeah it comes with a free angioplasty Richard Campbell Oh man So any conferences on the immediate horizon for you Rocky Rocky Lhotka bunch Oh in November there s a Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka Let s see what else have got think there s a VSLive coming up in August Richard Campbell Ah yes Mr Hollis was saying you two are working together Rocky Lhotka In Redmond yeah Billy and are doing WPF Silverlight workshop Richard Campbell Nice Rocky Lhotka fun to work with Billy That would be fun It s always Carl Franklin Yeah Rocky Lhotka And DevConnections in November believe that is Richard Campbell Yup Rocky Lhotka Yeah usually the summers are slower and like them t
38. t Carl Franklin Well we have spent the whole weekend talking about every possible permutation of every possible NET technology and every issue that we can possibly think of So don t even know where to start Richard just want to talk to Rocky about you know Minnesota or something Richard Campbell You know what Rocky knows a lot about Silverlight Carl Franklin He does Richard Campbell He is a Silverlight fan Carl Franklin Not only does he know a lot about Silverlight but he knows a lot about systems in general and I m sure you ve got some opinions on the Windows Phone 7 0 and HTML 5 0 and what have been our other topics hot topics this weekend We ve talked a little bit about Microsoft and their what is it The counter law suit from Richard Campbell SalesForce Carl Franklin SalesForce you know We talked a little bit about patents Richard Campbell Maybe we ve been all over the map Carl Franklin We ve been all over the map Is Silverlight going to work on the phone Man just don t know where to start Rocky Maybe you could just pick something What are you thinking about these days Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Rocky Lhotka That everything that can be said has been said Is that the Carl Franklin No no no I m sure you ll bring some fresh perspective to these topics Rocky Lhotka Well think that c
39. u re truly using the phone for work then why not Rocky Lhotka Well it does seem like a variation on the marketplace except that it was almost yeah it would be some certificate protected server that your company would put up Richard Campbell Uh hmm Rocky Lhotka And whatever is on the server would automatically roll out to everybody s phone Carl Franklin Right So you just wake up in the morning whatever there s a new app on your phone Actually go to lunch you know Rocky Lhotka Yeah That seems like a kind of story you d want to have Carl Franklin Yup And updates too Richard Campbell You can make that pretty painless if you just have the ability to join a domain which mean Mobile 6 5 phones can join a domain don t know if the Mobile 7 0 once can I venever asked that question Can join it to a domain Because the moment have it joined to a domain you pretty much got all the credentials you need to say yeah this is one of my phones go ahead and install the app Carl Franklin Uh hmm Page 6 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Richard Campbell Interesting Well what else What have we got to do CSLA 4 0 So you ve rewritten everything in VB NET Rocky Lhotka Yeah absolutely Richard Campbell Nice Rocky Lhotka C clearly is not going anywhere Carl Franklin Yeah so bad Richard Campbell Yeah it s just a passing thing Rocky Lhotka Sa
40. u should Rocky Lhotka Then yes NET itself is very much mature Visual Studio has had a number of releases and of course this was a big one Right Richard Campbell Yeah Rocky Lhotka Because they change so much of the actual tool they run on WPF Richard Campbell Yes Rocky Lhotka You know 2008 in comparison seems like a much smaller shift Richard Campbell Very minor in comparison without a doubt Carl Franklin Rocky did remember correctly that you have a radio show Transcription by PWOP Productions http www pwop com Rocky Lhotka is CSLA and More October 26 2010 Rocky Lhotka No don t Carl Franklin Well what am thinking of then mean know that you re into radio Oh maybe that you re listening to a radio show Rocky Lhotka That s true love radio plays Carl Franklin what remember That s it radio dramas That s Rocky Lhotka Yeah Carl Franklin told us about once What was the program that you Rocky Lhotka The one think was telling you about is something called The Adventures of Ruby Carl Franklin to me Yes yes It s all coming back Rocky Lhotka Which is the ZBS production out in Boston Carl Franklin Yeah Richard Campbell Is Ruby a girl or is Ruby a programming language Rocky Lhotka galactic gumshoe Ah Ruby is a girl Ruby is a Richard Campbell Nice Carl Franklin Nice Rocky Lhotka Ruby 6 0 or 6 5 now think they re
41. ule engines Richard Campbell Right Rocky Lhotka Such as Windows Workflow or whatever you might have Richard Campbell Interesting Rocky Lhotka And also you could think say You know what want to invoke an F component that implements my rule or all my rules Richard Campbell Good point Yeah you ve already created an extensible architecture that would be perfect for dropping an F component into Carl Franklin All that MEF Rocky Lhotka I ve looked at MEF quite a bit decided not to take a dependency on it directly but certainly there are places It wasn t clear that CSLA needed to take its own dependency on MEF but certainly there are places where you might choose to use CSLA s extensibility and MEF combined to create dynamically loadable data access layers dynamically loadable rules or rule engines and that works great and so I did spend some quality time with MEF Richard Campbell Nice Carl Franklin Okay Richard Campbell Well and can see MEF fitting into your current app design pretty easily You want to create these points of extensibility and I ve got nothing to say about MEF when it comes to that Rocky Lhotka Yeah mean I ve used that a few times on different things and it is really pretty nice but arguably it can make your code hard to follow If somebody is walking up to your code he might look at it and go you ve got this field that mystically is populated with values and don t
42. ut that We will be editing them and releasing them as shows some on Tuesday some on Thursday We decided some aren t Thursday shows What else You better stick around because at 9 30 that s in approximately 40 minutes 39 minutes we re going to have some live music here in the studio My band Solvo will be playing Richard Campbell Woo hoo Carl Franklin So Rocky Lhotka Until then Richard is going to be here to entertain you Carl Franklin No actually he s not Richard Campbell No think we re going to cut over the feed music for the interval here and thank my Carl Franklin sound check Becausewe ve got to do a Page 17 of 18 The Internet Audio Talk Show for NET Developers Rocks Richard Campbell Yeah Carl Franklin And that means everybody will hear the sound check if Richard s mike was live but Richard has got something really important to do He s going to go visit Mark and Karen and the kids Richard Campbell Yeah the Miller Mangiacotti clan the children especially because I ve been staying there at night but we ve been working late everyday so hardly had any time with them and also I m flying out early tomorrow morning and they asked if there was any way that could get a little time So got to pack up and rush over there and have a little cult time with the kids Rocky Lhotka Get ready They might boil some water Carl Franklin That s right Richard Campbell Yeah
43. y Lhotka And now you know some percentage of the world hates me because they re like well how can he have not look at F Richard Campbell Rocky what are you thinking Rocky Lhotka But you know think that some of the things that functional programming offers are truly compelling and I m being dismissive of them all and at the same time they re a lot of work to do Richard Campbell Yeah yeah In terms of return that s a much tougher bed than say making it work on the phone Rocky Lhotka Yup exactly Richard Campbell Making it work on the phone is something could clearly see the end game for you There might be a couple of gotchas in there somewhere it depends on what s implemented but pretty sure that s going to work Rocky Lhotka Well not only is it going to work but I m pretty sure it s going to make a bunch of people happy Carl Franklin This portion of NET Rocks is brought to you by the Haystack Code Generator for NET Code Generation on steroids Want more control over your Code Gen You want your code generator to give you Silverlight 4 0 WPF and ASP NET CRUD screens The Haystack Code Generator for NET will generate entity data and business rule classes for all your SQL Server and Oracle tables views and store procedures Haystack generates ASP NET WPF and Silverlight user controls View Model classes and WCF Service Layer classes for true and tier applications Check out codehaystack co
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